Nathan Chan, CEO, Foundr
“I refuse to lose.”
It’s the mantra that has guided Foundr CEO Nathan Chan through the highs and lows of becoming an entrepreneur. It helped him resist the naysayers, and confront deep insecurities and self-doubt, to build the business he fell in love with right away. That sense of determination and drive continues to fuel Foundr’s big goal of impacting tens of millions of entrepreneurs around the globe with world-class resources and training.
In this inspiring interview, Nathan gets up close and personal and takes us behind the scenes of what it was like starting Foundr—the good and not so good—and the many lessons he learned along the way. Interviewed by Dave Hobson, our head of product and business development and one of the first to join the Foundr team, the two reminisce about the early days, the first goals the company set, and the memorable moments that transformed the company from a side hustle to global presence.
Pull up a chair and a drink (Does Nathan prefer wine or beer? Find out in this interview!) and learn more about Foundr, how the company started, and where it is headed in the near future. Nathan shares it all in this special 200th podcast episode. We promise you this is an interview that will inspire you for many years to come.
- How Nathan transitioned from his day job to full-time entrepreneur and why the timing was critical to his success
- What separates the entrepreneurial success stories from those who never make it happen
- How to minimize risk where you can while still making huge strides for your business
- The importance of knowing your strengths and weaknesses and getting the right advice from mentors. This is one of the keys to Foundr’s growth.
Full Transcript of Podcast with Nathan Chan
Dave: Awesome. I think we’re going to have a lot of fun with this. I really wanted to cover a few really specific things with you that no one else will no. Maybe a few of your close personal friends, and some people who stay behind the scenes, so today what I really want to cover with you is some of those little, those little bits of those insights and the bit of gold that happens behind the scenes, and helps you created a company like Founder, that most people will never see and never know, and they’re sometimes the most crucial part when people try to figure out this whole journey to mastering entrepreneurship.
There are these little things that happen day to day, turning points, and I think a lot of people don’t get to see them so, I’m really excited to go back, pull up a few things from your past and from the origins of Founder, and one of the first things I just wanted to start with, I just wanted to do a bit of a comparison, kind of where Founder is now, and then I want to go back to where it began, so can you just give a really quick snapshot? How would you describe Founder as it is right now, in terms of as a company and audience size?
Nathan: Yeah, okay. Awesome man, thanks first of all for doing this, bro. I’m really excited, I think this is going to be a tonne of fun, and it’s really seeing things through your lens, and yeah, this is going to be awesome.
So, well basically where we’re at now, millions of people consume our content on a monthly basis, and I think were working on some game changing stuff, like a lot of cutting edge stuff. The stuff that we’re working on is particularly the educational space and around entrepreneurial and start up content no one is doing right now, so I think we’ve got a really different spin on how things should be and how we can serve people, and yeah, I’m just so extremely pumped.
I think we’re having a lot of fun and we’ve got a great team, like an amazing team of just serious beasts, just like everyone is so good at what they do and its really exciting at the moment. There’s been ups and downs but I can confidently say that we’re really hitting some solid ground at the moment in terms of growth and everything that we’ve been working on, so yeah, that’s kind of how I view where we’re at and its just yeah, its just so much fun, and yeah, we’re doing something really special I think.
Dave: Absolutely. So, what I want to get now is an insight. I want to do a bit of a what’s happening now versus what happened before, just to get people who are either at the beginning of their journey or somewhere in the middle, just what it looks like. So, on an average day now, let’s say average day, average week, what would that look like for you? Where do you wake up? What do you do? What would a working day look like for you right now?
Nathan: Yeah, so, pretty much most morning I have to get up early. Every Friday morning I get up early at like 6:30, 7:00 because I do interviews, so I do like, interviews on the Friday, and then through Monday to Thursday, I’m usually going to the gym, so I usually get up at like 6:30, go to the gym, and then straight from there I got to the office. When I wake up, always make my porridge. Pretty big on my porridge, and yeah, go to the gym, and then have my porridge while I’m driving, and then yeah, get in to the office.
Along the way, before I jump into the car, ill check through my emails, and just see what’s been happening, and then yeah, during the day, just what’s really cool now is because we’ve been working with Steve McCloud, who we interviewed for another episode for kind of like our coach or helping us run our strategy, keeping us accountable. Every quarter now, we map out what our goals are for the quarter, and we’ve got a goal for the year, so it’s very, very structured, we’ve only got four or five goals that certain people on the team are working on, and I’m just kind of helping where I can, and I’ve got some of my goals, so depends on where I’m at with my goals, ill be working on some of those projects.
We’re working on a lot of courses at the moment, and doing some next level stuff there, so I quite often I’m checking in with Zach and seeing how I can further help him, and then checking in with you, seeing what’s happening with certain marketing activities and projects and things we’re working on, and checking in with Jesse and Julius and where we’re at with funnels and all sorts of technology stuff, and them, yeah so, my day is kind of composed of just, yeah, bing in the office, helping you guys, working on projects, and then also just kind of meeting people.
I meet probably one to two, maybe sometimes upwards of three to five new people a week, whether that’s on Skype or in person. A combination of just learning from really smart people or potential people that we can work with. I think one thing that’s really key now is just, one thing I’ve learned is that the way that you scale a company is just from really great people. You’ve got to have a really great strategy, you’ve got to have great products and services, but really it’s the people that take your company to the next level, and we’re building as I mentioned an insanely amazing team of just really talented people, and I want to bring more people into that fold, so I’m trying to be quite proactive not in potential people that can join us, so meeting a lot of people every week now. Always have since I started Founder now. Probably more than ever I’m meeting a lot of people, and that’s kind of my week, man. Just kind o weaving in and out of that, all that stuff.
Dave: Sure. Sorry to interrupt, but also you’re sitting, I know you’re a few suburbs away, you’re in a nice part of town, your on a brand new iMac, and so that’s kind of what you’re doing, right? That’s where you’re working from.
Dave: You’ve managed to sort of create, you come in and work with a whole team. Now what I want to do is, I want to compare that to when I met you and you when you first started Founder and it wasn’t called Founder.
Nathan: Yeah. So…
Dave: Because I think a lot of people can really relate to that. Where were you at when you had just decided to start something?
Nathan: Yeah, so, that would have been about five years ago now, and, you want me to talk about when I was working in my day job in IT support?
Dave: Yeah. I’d just love a snapshot for people to see. I know a lot of people will relate to where you were at, just to know your day to day life and how it’s changed. I’ve mapped out some of the little things all the way behind the scenes that I’ve seen happen and kind of help people see how you got to where you were to this global media brand, like the tribe’s building it. Its crazy.
So yeah, where were you at? Just an average sort of day, don’t need too much detail, but just a snapshot of where you were at and how you were feeling when you started it all.
Nathan: Yeah, so, when I started it, the magazine was called something else and we were sued for trademark infringement by one of the biggest business magazines in The States, and I had to change the name, and yeah, i started it as like as a passion project, so I didn’t know it was going to be what it is today. I had absolutely no idea. At the time I was thinking I just finished my degree, I did a masters in marketing, I was thinking I hope I can get a job in marketing. It was the side hustle, man.
I was waking up first thing in the morning and checking my emails. Wasn’t living where I’m living now, I was in outer suburbs with a housemate, and yeah, I’d wake up in the morning, check my emails, and you know what’s funny? I used to think to myself, I used to get excited when I got a business email around Founder. I used to be like, ‘Oh, I can’t wait until I get more emails.’ It was ridiculous. Thinking back on that, I used to get an email around Founder, but it wasn’t called Founder at the time, and yeah, I used to wake up really excited to start the day just looking at the Founder stuff, and then I’d have to catch the train all the way into the city. Most often than not, I’d just miss the train, or I’d be sprinting to try and get the train, otherwise I’d get to work late.
I’d always get to work late, and yeah, it was just really bad, and then I remember just sitting on the train just really not liking my life, and I’ll never forget being on the train, it was always dead silent because it was so early in the morning and no one wanted to say anything, or no one was even on the phone.
Everyone was just quiet. You’d have probably about 100 to 200 people across the carriage and it’s just dead silent. You’d hate absolutely anything. I don’t know, it’s just like, I think people just don’t want to go, or maybe some people are excited about it but for some reason I got the feeling that most weren’t, and yeah. I’ll never forget that, and I don’t even catch the train anymore just because it reminds me of the old times, so yeah, walk to the office, get off the train, walk to the office, and I just have a bit of a laugh with some of my work colleagues because we worked in IT support, then I’d log into my computer and I’d look at the support tickets and things that I’d have to do, then obviously smash a full day’s work out at that company, Intrepid Travel, amazing company, and then I’d come home. I’d have dinner, and after dinner I’d have an hour to two hour timeline or block where I could work on Founder, and just try and move the needle as much as possible.
Sometimes I’d work until 3 a.m., depends if I saw Emily or not, because me and Emily did live together back then, and yeah, I’d go see her at around 10:00, I’d go see her from 10:00 and we’d hang out from 10 until 12 a.m., then we’d go to sleep, or I wouldn’t see her and I’d probably work until 3 a.m., 1 a.m., as long as I could go, and then I’d get up early and start the day again, and at the time I was feeling quite lost, to be honest with you. Quite frustrated, but I was building momentum like, such small minimal amounts of momentum, like we just had the magazine on the app store.
We have no like, our website was just a single landing page, just to keep Apple happy. We weren’t even on the Android store, and just every day I would check my phone and see if we got a new subscriber to the magazine, and yeah, it was just a really, really slow burn, but I remember being quite frustrated, especially towards the end, and you remember that, like I remember we were having the conversation on the phone and I was saying maybe I shouldn’t leave my day job yet because I need to save some more money so I said I might wait another three or six months, and you really challenged me. I’ll never forget that conversation as well, where I was in a certain room, it was amazing, man. So yeah, that was kind of me.
Dave: Yeah, it’s just crazy to think about, and you’ve done it here as well. One thing I found it really funny, and I used to find funny back then and I never told you this. I’ll tell you now. You would always say we. You would talk about Founder and say, ‘Oh, we’re doing this and we’re doing that,’ and in my head I’d be like, what are you talking about man? It’s just you, like it’s just you and maybe a designer, and even when you talk back, I always felt like you had this bigger and stronger vision behind it because you were so set on turning it into something. I think some people might think you had a tea and all this stuff was going on, but you were just busting your ass at a day job, working hard at night, and when you say we it was really maybe like you and maybe like a designer and a writer and just a few people, a few contractors you were just paying out of your monthly wage. Is that right?
Nathan: Yeah 100 percent, so cash float the whole business for a long time. At least a good year until it was self sufficient that I could leave my day job and live off the money that it was generating.
Dave: Yeah, and in those early days, how did other people react? Friends, family, when you told people about your idea, how did people react in general?
Nathan: Well you know what’s funny? I never actually told friends. So, when I launched Founder, it wasn’t called Founder at the time, I didn’t actually tell any friends. I’ve always had this thing where I don’t want to be like the guy, or some hot shot, so I’ve always liked to fly under the radar, so I never really told friends except really close ones that I’d been working on this thing, but I never made a big deal out of I either. The friends that I did tell, they didn’t really understand, of yeah, they didn’t really think much of it.
They just thought it was like a project I was working on, or they never thought, I don’t think they would have thought that it would turn into what it is today, and what’s really cool is I’m actually able to help some of my friends now, and I’ve been able to inspire them to want to go out and perhaps create a project, or start up, or a business.
Yeah being able to help them, and now I look, I remember, I’ll never forget my mum, and my mum is amazing by the way, I’m not making fun of my mum. She’s an amazing person. She taught me a lot about life, but I’ll never forget one time I was in the kitchen, it was Sunday, I was catching up with my family, and my mum was just like, ‘Oh, you think you’re an entrepreneur?’ And she was just laughing and I got actually really made about that, I was like, ‘You serious?’ And like, ill never forget as well, on the first day that we launched the magazine, I went to walk down the road to get fish and chips with my housemate and his girlfriend at the time, and now wife, and I told him, ‘Yeah, we made $5 in the first day,’ and I was like, ‘How good,’ and she was like, ‘Are you serious? Is that all?’ And just laughed, and I was just like, gutted. I actually felt really shut down by that, and so yeah, at the time I didn’t really tell any friends or make anything of it and I wanted to just let the work that was being produced speak for itself, and then yeah.
Never been one to really want to brag or even felt comfortable talking to friends about that kind of stuff, and yeah.
Dave: Before we move forward from the early day stories, there’s one more which is a whole bizarre funny story that I was even a part of it, but you remember this really clearly, and we won’t name names, but it ended up, the company I was working with, they effectively gave business advice, business coaching advice, and anyway, before you and I were really actually friends, some of the first times we met, we were in the same room together and there were business experts giving advice, and you sort of have to go in and talk about your idea, and you were on maybe, you’d done the second magazine at that stage, maybe issue number two, working on number three, and just really quickly, just talk about that.
I find that fascinating to look back on because we were there. This is supposed to be the experts. They’ve got all the knowledge, all the advice. Here’s you, side hustle, working really hard, and can you just tell everyone a real quick snapshot, what happened or what they said to you?
Nathan: Yeah, sure, so when you first get started you just go to heaps of different events. You just want to find out, meet people and find out more things to help you, and I went to a local business event, and yeah, the part of their sales process was to call me up and try and get me to move on to the next stage, and yeah, that’s how we met, and we’d been on the phone and we had an awesome conversation, I was like, ‘Wow, this guy’s so cool,’ and I told you like we had Neil Patel on the latest magazine edition and you knew who he was and we really connected and we exchanged emails and you chatted and it probably wasn’t a fit for me to go to the next stage because I had no money and I wasn’t going to be able to invest in anything anyways, and someone in your team rang me back and ended up convincing me to go to this next stage right?
We were in a room a week later or so, and the next stage is the coaching programme. They’re going to put you in a coaching programme, and what they did was they got you to write down your goals of where you want to be, kind of future place for the next five or 10 years and I wrote down all of these things I wanted to do with Founder around making it a globally recognised brand and interview some of the greatest entrepreneurs of our generation and all these things and build a multimillion dollar business and all these other things, and I can’t remember exactly why or how it got to me but, they were saying like, the person that was running the event was saying like, ‘Are you going to join?’ And it was kind of like yeah, I can’t remember it was really awkward, and I was like yeah, I don’t think it’s a fit.
I can’t afford it, and all these other things, and they basically said to me that, what you’re trying to do, what you’ve written down, I’ve seen people try to do it and it’s not going to happen and you’re going to fail and its too hard and I’ve seen plenty of people come and go and they’ve never made it work, and then I remember even you said, ‘He’s got an interview with Richard Branson,’ and he said like, ‘Yeah, no offence, but Richard Branson’s been on the covers of every business magazine,’ which actually is true.
So, yeah, look, that was kind of, at the time I didn’t really think much of that. I didn’t really care what that person said, but yeah that was kind of how I remember what happened, and then yeah, obviously I didn’t sign up to the programme, and amazing people, and I actually did learn a lot on that day, but when you’re just starting something, no one really knows how you’re going to do because you’re got nothing to show for it, so of course, I’ve been the same where I’ve seen somebody where they’re starting something and I won’t tell them but I think to myself like, ‘Hmm, maybe they won’t make it,’ or ‘I don’t know if that’s a good idea,’ and then wow, it’s this massive thing.
Dave: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative), and so why do you think, obviously it didn’t really sink in, but when you were just starting, it’s difficult, you’re working on the side, it’s costing you money. You’d don’t really know what you’re doing, like why did you keep going? Why did you even try if the odds seemed so stacked against you, like yeah, why did you keep pushing?
Nathan: Well, a few reasons. When I first started the magazine it was literally just I started for two reasons. One, I wanted to get a job in marketing and no one would hire me, so I thought it would be cool to create this magazine and market it because I was really passionate about marketing but no one would give me a job, and two, I wanted to make money and I wanted to find work that I was passionate about, and it took me a couple of editions of the magazine, but I really started to fall in love with the process, and I just, I’ll never forget, after my first Skype interview I did with this lady named Lin Hwang for the first issue, I did the Skype interview I was so nervous, and I’ll never forget, after it I was so pumped, excited, exhilarated, I remember telling Emily like, ‘I was so nervous but I know this is something that I’m meant to do,’ like I loved it so much.
And I just fell in love with the business and the process and the magazine and the content and everything that we were doing, and I was kind of teaching myself in a way. I was getting to learn and understand and understand and teach myself around how to build and grow a successful business, and yeah, what kept me going was I fell in love with it and it was just so much fun, and I realised that’s what I want to do, and the second thing was, we had these subscribers, people that were subscribing to the magazine, so even that I didn’t know if it was going to work, I said to myself, ‘I’ll give it a good, hard crack for a year, see how far I can take it, and I’ve promised a monthly magazine. The last thing I would ever do was to not give people a monthly magazine, and they’re paying $3 a month.’
So I just, me as a person, I don’t want to let anyone down, and I want to do the very best I can by anyone, so I just kept doing it and I just kept publishing that magazine every single month, even though there might have only been 20 subscribers the first month, and then 40 the next month, and I could see it growing, and I could see that I was onto something. I just kept building that momentum and this shipping habit and I got really good at just making sure that I could produce a really good quality magazine every month.
Dave: Yeah, absolutely, and I just want to think about before we move on, just like those turning points. There’s one points in that early sort of stage, there’s a few things that I saw kind of as a friend and as you talk about the story now, one, this is for people who are stuck in the grind, or stuck in the nine to five, or whatever they’re doing, you just got to start and you pursue the passion and you put the time in.
You develop the habit of working on the habit. You would celebrate small wins like yeah, you got your first sale, all those kinds of things, and the second one was that shipping habit of not letting people down. I think that’s critical, that’s been amazing to see, no matter what just have that commitment and have to follow through, otherwise obviously things like motivation can go down, life gets in the way, but when you’ve got commitment you stick to it, and for me, it was really, a lot of people ask this, you say this every day, whether it’s online, emails, should I quit my day job, or what can I do, it’s complicated answer, but one thing I think you did really well, and it’s funny because I got the email before, and I’ve got the exact wording here, you said, “Bring on the first day of the rest of my life! July 31, resignation will be handed in.”
Dave: Yeah, as we discussed before, you, because I remember you sat there and you were saying, ‘I’m going to get it up to enough where I can quit my job. I will replace my income and then I’ll quit,’ and as we discussed, I don’t want to get too into it, but obviously, you replaced your income more or less and then you set a date, you had me keeping you accountable, and you followed through, and I always think so many times, what would happen if you’d let like everybody get to that feel, like it’s hard to step into that uncertainty, and you just got a digital magazine, and half a year or a year in, I think it was like a year in, just to take that big step.
So, to me, that’s one of the, so much had happened in that first year, but that was probably after getting the shipping and committing, and kind of not listening to people, to me that was probably the next biggest, or the first big turning point was when you waited. It wasn’t easy to do what you were doing, but you waited until you were ready, and then you transitioned across, would you agree?
Nathan: Yeah. 100 percent, and like, I think that’s just like, me as a person, like I think it’s really important, like you just do what you say you’re going to do and be committed to what you’re going to do. So, yeah, no, it’s really cool to hear that, man.
Dave: And I’ve got something funny for you again, I’m going to pull out a couple unexpected little gems now and again just to keep you on your toes a little bit. Keep it a bit fun.
Nathan: Okay, alright.
Dave: And so for people listening, what you and I were doing at that time, like we were like everyone else. You write blogs, you try new things, you know your life’s not where it is, you read about gold sitting entrepreneurs and you try to figure something out, and we could get together and we would write down our annual goals and we would try and just figure out what the hell we were going to do, just keep each other accountable, and you, this is the recap that you wrote and it’s, I’ve taken nothing too personal, but the stuff you wrote at the end of the year was, “Yeah, okay, guys. I actually wanted to share this with you. Its actually been such a powerful process and I suggest you do the same with me,” I think we should talk to people about that process in just a minute, but this was your summary, so this is really your first kind of year in getting Founder going.
“I created a self sustainable business that is profitable. It pays to run itself and it’s growing. Connected with Richard Branson and many other amazingly successful and influential entrepreneurs. I was sued by one of the biggest magazines in The United States. I started playing table tennis again, and found my love for it. Have begun creating an empire and am taking on the world. Created an amazingly comfortable and clean bedroom; the ultimate nest. Visited Cambodia and Vietnam. Had experience on how lucky I really am. Made so many new friends and met so many amazing people that I welcome into my life and quite amazing mentors. Made my first dollars online. Someone was prepared to pay me for something that I’ve created. Happy New Years, boys. Regards, Nathan.”
So, that was the first year. I think that’s crazy to kind of look at that process we were doing, and this is what I’ll always remember is you would have this process that you taught me around goal setting, and it was that, and when we were sitting there at our day jobs, you would say what you said at the start of the podcast. I think that’s really powerful. You said, ‘I will have global magazine with millions of followers and readers,’ and at the time, you’d just made $5 online or whatever, or a few people, but you did this process every year going and get clearer, and clearer, and clearer, and I just thought phenomenal that what you said at the start of the podcast, looking back just a few years before, I think for everybody listening, you didn’t have nay of those things. They were just goals that you set in your heart and written down on paper.
Nathan: Yeah, man. That’s so cool that you did that, dude. Thank you, man. I think yeah, it’s easy to forget that kind of stuff.
Dave: Absolutely, and the other thing that you did in those early days I remember as well, is that you wrote down things, not things that seemed unrealistic, but things that were ambitious. So I remember your list of podcast guests that you wanted. I think you had a list of about 100.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: And you had sort of Tim Ferriss and Seth Godin and all these people that you were like, ‘Oh, I really want to get them,’ and at that time, it wasn’t really, people would say no, whereas I think you’ve pretty much crossed off that whole, probably 90 percent of that list.
Nathan: Yeah. I would say, yeah, yeah. Yeah, fr the most part, we’ve interviewed a big part of that list, yeah.
Dave: So, and then, so those kinds of early days is really important for people to know because they don’t necessarily see the behind the scenes. They don’t see the ups and downs. Everybody starts with self doubt. Everybody starts with people saying it’s not going to work, but you just had this process, you locked onto your goals, you got really clear, and you got a saying that’s really powerful, I’m wondering when you picked it up. Well, I hear it all the time as well.
You have this saying that is, “I refuse to lose,” and I think since the early days, that’s something that definitely got you through all those transitions in Founder, like you just decided what you were going after, didn’t really listen to what other people were saying, wrote it down and you’ve just kept on that course day in day out.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, thank you man. Yeah, that “refuse to lose” piece is like, it’s something like, my whole life I’ve never really got a very good job. I never really got good grades, and I was always kind of struggling and felt quite lost but since I started Founder and I fell so in love with the business and everything we do at Founder, I just refuse, yeah, I just absolutely refuse to lose or be beaten and I just can see the power of just putting your mind to something and attacking it and competing and not being beaten, and I refuse yeah, to be beaten, and yeah I’m just relentless. I will not stop until, yeah.
Dave: Definitely, and so just looking at those transition points we also here at Founder, we’ve got an amazing audience, amazing community. We’re just so lucky that these people that listen and engage with us, and you and I see this as well, there’s kind of a difference, right?
There’s even some of your friends I’ve seen that have started kind of getting into business and entrepreneurship around the same time as you and those guys are doing amazing things. A handful of your friends, they’re just doing some very, very powerful things that they’re going after, whether it’s getting on Shark Tank or really just creating multimillion dollar businesses and really just being very successful at what they’re trying to do, but then I also see those people who, they always talk about it. They always want to get some advice from us, want to get some advice from you, but they just never a few years later you catch up and they’re just in the same place and they’re not really happy, and I’m just, what do you think separates those kinds of people? What do you think from your experience?
Nathan: Hmm. Well, I think the first one is that comes to mind is they just don’t want it bad enough. I think, yeah, like you’ve got to go out there and hustle really, really hard, and I know that’s kind of like a cop out excuse, or it’s probably not the answer that the people were looking for, but for me, that’s one thing just that relentless discipline of just showing up.
I used to think about that quote by Woody Allen. I like quotes obviously, and success is like 20 percent, or 80 percent or something, 80 percent showing up most of the time, and yeah, I think as well it’s got to come down to as well a ridiculous amount of self awareness. Just knowing who you are and what your strengths and weaknesses are because it’s it’s easy to get caught up with the excitement or starting something or wanting to grow it or building something, but you really need to know from a self awareness standpoint, where you need help and where you’re not string, and really it’s so difficult when you are building a business, or starting because you’ve got to run so many elements of it.
You’ve got to run the finance, you’ve got to come up with a great idea or a strong idea, you got to solve a pain, and you’ve got to be good at marketing and you’ve got to … it’s just so many different elements and you can’t be good at them all, so you need to be able to work out where you can supplement there, and I think if people don’t have that really strong self awareness or aren’t homed in on where they’re at in their strengths and their weaknesses, it can get really difficult too, and I think that’s a common thing, so yeah, not wanting it bad enough, self awareness, and then not working with your strengths and weaknesses and then yeah, probably the last one I’d say would be yeah, I think just, I think you really just have to be prepared to fail and not worry about choosing the right thing, and you can think about things, and after you’ve thought about it, there comes a point int time where you’ve got to move, and if it works it works, it doesn’t it doesn’t.
And I think a lot of people just try and second guess too much and they’re so scared of failure they’re almost paralysed by it, and I think you’ve just got to pull the trigger and if it doesn’t work out, then you’re going to acquire so much amazing knowledge along the way that the next one you’ll make it work, and I think people just need to be able to step outside that comfort zone around that.
Dave: Definitely, and I put out questions to the Founder community. I said, ‘So, I’m going to be talking with Nathan, what would you like me to ask him?’ And just in that kind of category, I mean, I should point out that as I look over on the wall, in terms of shipping, we’ve got this huge poster that says “Move fast and break things,” so definitely we get that from you and definitely and with the Athos of just getting things out there.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: We don’t want to do things poorly, but we also don’t want that paralysis by analysis and sometimes you just have to ship it.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: And when you’re talking about some people aren’t prepared to fail, Bette, one of our friends actually wrote in and said, “I’d love to know this from Nathan. Has there ever been a point in time during this whole journey where it’s felt like it’s too hard and you’ve considered giving up?”
Nathan: Yeah. Many times. Even like, being 100 percent honest with you, man, and you’ve seen like the struggles in all stages. I’ve thought to myself, ‘Yeah, maybe just close up,’ and I wasn’t that I’m going to do it, but the thought does cross my mind just like, what would it be like if we just closed up and did something else?
For sure, I think everyone has those thoughts. I don’t really have them that often now but there has been some really tough times that we’ve had in the past 12 to 8 months where thoughts cross my mind of what would it look like if I did shut up shop because it’s really really tough? It’s really, really hard. A lot of people think, ‘You guys are Founder, you’re killing it,’ all this stuff, and you’re growing so fast, and with growth comes a lot of pains and understanding how to scale, and yeah, it’s been really tough.
Even like the past 12 to 8 months I’ve played with the idea in my mind do it or, because things are tough and your mind just goes there, but definitely in the early days, I remember I was speaking to this guy called Ramly and he was from Canada and he had an awesome blog and he did free catch up sessions with founders to help you find out if you found product market fit. I don’t know why he did it but just a legendary guy, and I remember like 12 months into Founder and I was gearing up to leave my day job, I remember jumping onto a call with him and just saying, ‘Hey man, this is where I’m at with my magazine stuff. Have I found product market fit? I don’t know if this is going to work, I’ve got no idea.’
Even when I left my day job and I went full time on Founder, I was thinking at the start like, yeah I’d have the magazine but then I’d have a side business as well to sort of keep myself afloat for a long time or to grow it, was setting up magazines for other people or other companies, and I was doing that for a little bit, which is absolutely ridiculous at the time, and so yeah, many times have I felt like throwing in the towel or giving up or maybe this isn’t going to work. Never go there and never actually move towards actually saying, yeah, we’re going to shut up shop or change things or not do it anymore, but yeah, those thoughts have crossed my mind and I’ve played with them many times. It’s not something I’m proud of, but it’s just the truth.
Dave: And yeah that’s what we’re all about at Founder obviously is being real, being authentic, and that’s what helps people and I think that’s why people connect so strongly to what you’re doing and what we’re doing and now, I’m sort of switching between my notes, I’m looking back at the timeline so, there’s that timeline saying, “Bring on the first day of the rest of my life,” and then I had some notes the next year is you trying to figure out hiring the first VA.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: I remember I could see you sent me the top three candidates and you were like, ‘What do you think, bro?’ And on that list I sort of said something like, I basically told you to based on your own criteria I did sort of make a pick, but on that list was Angela.
Nathan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: Angela been phenomenal. It’s just funny seeing those little moments of okay, you’re growing, you’re trying to figure out what to do and bring someone onto the team, and I don’t really like calling Angela a virtual assistant because I think she’s just a key team member, but that was how it first sort of started, so brought on Angela and then I can see there’s that recap. “First day or the rest of my life,” and people have told you, ‘Good luck, it’s not going to work,’ and ‘Who cares? $5, what are you doing?’ And then there’s a recap at the end of the year, and this is the winds.
I’ve just chosen out kind of the relevant wins. One year later, you said, “Wins would be if we hit 100 K followers on Instagram, grow our email database almost three X in the past three months, so that stage was currently 15 000.
Nathan: Wow, wow.
Dave: And then some of that whole don’t despise the day of small beginnings because everybody wants to have an email list of hundreds of thousands, and as you taught me and we learned with Eddie, just start with one email at a time and just build it up.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: So its interesting to see back when the email list was just 15, 000, that was like a huge accomplishment obviously, but it’s massively different now, but that’s where it began, and you said the other wins would be, so this is after that next year, “Interview Seth Godin, Tony Robbins, Michelle Phan, Deepak Chopra, Dave and John and many more,” and so it’s just seeing what you did what that kind of, you quit and you just kept building that momentum, so I thought that was really cool to kind of see that. Just going back and looking over my notes, just seeing piece by piece as you put it all together and started to get more amazing influencers, interviewed more and more people, and grown the brand, and pulling on amazing people like Angela, but just seeing it one piece at a time, and I think so many people look at a thing like Founder and they see that traffic, or views or social media and they just think, oh it’s easy for you guys, right of course, you’ve of course, it was built one blog post at a time, one thing at a time, so I think it’s really cool to see those transition points after talking about the harder times.
And then I just wanted to switch and ask you another question which was, so we’ve heard about when it’s difficult. When the going’s tough, or course everyone has those thoughts. I terms of advice, what has been, this will be a hard one for you because you talk to a lot of different people, but what stands out in your mind during this journey at Founder, as the most impactful piece of advice that’s someone, anyone, whether its a mentor, family, friend, has given you along the way?
Nathan: Hmm, well first of all man, I just want to say this is amazing, dude, like thank you so much for sharing this cool stuff, like in knew you were doing an awesome, so you’re doing amazing man, so thank you. This is awesome fun.
Dave: Anytime, man.
Nathan: It’s so cool, so cool to look back.
The first one that comes to mind is something that Mitch taught me, one of my mentors, co-founder of a company called BeCommerce, incredible guy, very, very smart guy. He taught me a lot, and I think it’s that people often think that Founder’s entrepreneurs are risk takers, but the most successful founders entrepreneurs are, they’re actually extremely risk adverse, and they always try and stack the deck in their favour when they do take risks, so you can lose.
So a great example of that, or a great story to tell just quickly 30 seconds, is when Richard Branson was starting up Virgin, he made this awesome deal with the companies he was leasing the aeroplanes off and he said like, if you can give it to me at this price, or something along those lines that he stacked it in a way that he wouldn’t lose money and he’d give them the planes back, and so he got one plane for next to nothing, and if it didn’t work out, he could give it back to them, and he sold a whole tonne of flights and then the rest was history. So, that’s just a great example of how you always have to minimise risk and maximise upside. So, whenever we’re making any sort of critical decisions around anything we’re doing, I’m always looking at what can we do strategically to minimise risk as much as possible and maximise upside.
So, there’s many different ways and thought processes on how you can do that, but a great example would be, right now with Founder, we will not launch an educational course unless we’re 100 percent validated that it’s something that people want. So much of the point that we will do early bird specials, you can buy to course at 50 bucks or 100 bucks or nothing too much, cost of a nice dinner, a decent dinner, and we’ll know without a shadow of a doubt that it’s a pain point, it’s pain killer solution and we can work on finding someone that’s one of the best in the world to teach and we know that if a small minority of our community are experiencing this and they’re prepared to buy this course without it existing, and it’s not even created yet, then we’re onto something, and that really allows us to, even that money that we use will fund the production of the course.
So we’ve just maximised our upside and minimised our risk because the last thing you want to do is create a product that no one wants and spend all this money and we’re spending a lot of money on the production of these courses, and a lot of money, and the last thing we want to do is let that go to waste.
Dave: Definitely. I also want to, yeah, I remember you talking about that and bringing that back into the team and all that. I think it’s really, really important advice.
We’ve been going for a while, what I want to do is turn the corner a little bit and start switching into where we’re at now and also when we did put questions out to the Founder community, so many people wrote out saying what they would like to ask you, so I was to kind of tie those to things together.
Dave: So, I mean last time when I was looking in at this, you’d hired a BA and had hit Instagram followers of 100 thousand. Fast forward to now, Instagram account’s now 1.2, I think, sorry it hit 1.3 million.
Dave: So, 1.3 million on Instagram, we have celebrities sliding into the DM’s, which is hilarious.
Dave: Created a global, I can’t talk, global brand that in our database, that started off just chipping away at 15, 000, you were pumped, it’s obviously just exploded. I don’t need to necessarily talk numbers here but just showing that that’s where it it starts and now it’s got this massive level of growth. You’ve interviewed, as I look around at the walls on Founder, yes we start off with Richard Branson but, right through to your Gary Bees, Ariana Huffington, all these amazing people and one of the questions that came through was, off the top of your head, doesn’t have to be right, I’m sure there’s so many things, but at a gut reaction level, what was your favourite interview out of all the entrepreneurs, influencers, millionaires, billionaires, hustlers, and just people trying to succeed in this entrepreneurial game, do you have favourite interview, or one that really stands out in your mind, and why?
Nathan: Yeah, it would be Seth Godin, and the reason why is just that he’s one of my heroes, like I just love the way that he thinks about marketing. He’s just an amazing person and I love the way he thinks about business. He’s just a really, really amazing person and I’ve read so much of his work, and it was just so awesome, especially around the fact that it all happened so fast. It took me so long to build up the courage to pitch him. I pitched him at 11 p.m. before I went to bed, I woke up just at whatever chance at 6:30 a.m., and he said yeah I’m available in two hours, can we do it then? And I wrote back to him and I was so scared and nervous and I said, ‘Yeah, let’s do it,’ and yeah, it was just an incredible interview, just because yeah, I got to speak to one of my heroes and someone that I admire so much his work and everything.
Not any memorable insights because, to be honest, I just do so many interviews now a lot of it’s just a blur. I know this sounds bad, but it’s just a blur and I kind of take pieces and put them in my mind and for whatever reason they might come out, like I need to slot it out or take that tile out six months later, or 12 months later, or 18 months later, and I think I remember this person saying this and then I use it if it’s relevant for us, but it’s just so hard to remember because there’s just so many.
Dave: Definitely, and in terms of, I know the answer to this but, we work on so many different projects at Founder obliviously, so we’ve got the blog, we’ve got the podcast, the magazine, we’ve got socials, we’ve got a print magazine, we’ve got a book going as well, what has been your favourite project to work on at Founder?
Nathan: Oh, tricky question. It’s got to be the coffee table book. That whole process of creating it and just booking in our best staff and just creating just an amazing body of work, that’s probably our best in terms of time spent, body of work that we’ve physically people could see that we’ve put out. Its just so well designed. I’ve read it so many times, it’s just like the stuff in there, and it really is I believe, the bible for entrepreneurs, and it was just so much fun doing that Kickstarter campaign. I know you guys didn’t find it as fun but I just thought that was so much fun. Just watching it grow, and grow, and grow, and grow, and we’re trying to hit the target and oh man, I reckon that was the best ever.
Dave: What was the target? Was it a $50, 000 target and we hit 203?
Nathan: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, something around that. I think we just hit 200 and the target was 50, 000.
Dave: And it was on your birthday, wasn’t it? The closing…
Dave: At the end of the Kickstarter campaign was your birthday when we forexed the campaign.
Nathan: Nah, nah, we didn’t forex it we…
Dave: Wasn’t it 50 and we did over 200?
Nathan: Yeah, yeah. So we did over 200, but not on the day we didn’t forex it on the day.
Dave: Yeah, yeah, not on the day.
Dave: But just total on the whole project.
Nathan: Yeah. Yeah.
Dave: We did four X the target and you and I talk about this a lot as well because I like to leave things on a high and focus on really cool things and fun things and you always talk about it so I want you to expand on it, but just real quickly, is when we do our best work at Founder, you know, sometimes we get caught in a grind and we do things like ugh, what did we miss here? And then there’s times where you and I really think about when were doing our best work, and what do you think that is? When were really doing just the cool stuff that we get to do.
Nathan: Yeah. I think when we all go all in, we do our best work when we all go all in and we rally the whole team, and it’s just a one, singular focus, like when we work together the power of our whole team, were unstoppable, and I think that’s where yeah, that’s when we tend to do our best work when we rally everyone. That’s why I’m really excited that were obliviously, I think, looking back, I got us doing all these different things, and it was a little bit all over the place, and then now we’re really stripping back and really focusing, and I’m most excite once we create this course platform, the educational course platform, that it’ll be our singular focus, like how do we grow this platform? And I think that that’s where the real magic’s going to happen, when we’re just as a team, we’re 100 percent focused. How can we grow the platform? How can we grow … and that’s all we’re focused on, and I think that’s, yeah, that’s when I feel we do our best work. You agree?
Dave: Absolutely, and I think something else you and I also talk about, it’s when we do something new.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: Not to kind of flirt the entrepreneurial trap of chasing you, but if it’s new and exciting, we’re not just trying to do what someone else has done, we’re agreeing and we get that gut feeling when you know that it’s cool and you know that no one’s doing it, and we’re going to do it better and have a whole bunch of fun with it, and it brings with us this kind of excitement, just like the coffee table book, right? It’s where we’re really proud of it. It’s a really cool thing to have done and see, and it just brings this whole energy and freshness because we’re not just, yeah, i guess it’s that creative kind of spark that you get because it’s exciting and it hasn’t been done and it created this whole different energy and you can be creative and make some really interesting things happen that maybe if you’re just kind of crunching out something normal, I don’t think you bring that. I don’t think we bring that energy when it’s a bit too routine.
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, that’s so true. Every time we go all in, or we really think about something and we go against the grain, and we don’t do what other businesses or people are doing to serving, yeah, every time that we do something a little different that no one’s done before at a really even higher quality level, then we don’t just follow the blueprint, or what have you, we always got to go back to that man, like if you look at the stuff that we’re doing with our masterclasses now. Clear case in point. Never seen masterclasses done like that, they’re doing really, really, well, and man, it’s because we’ve gone against the grain. I think that moment of genius is for us. I think every time we just do something a little different and just yeah, do that like a Founder cool kind of factor, it always does well.
Dave: Definitely, and just a few kinds of questions as we start to wrap up. Bits I did promise to people. I’ve taken a few kind of listener questions.
Dave: I thought that would be a little bit fun. Can we move into those?
Nathan: Yeah. Done.
Dave: So, this is an easy one. Daniel Telesky writes, “Nathan, beer or wine?”
Nathan: Love, yeah, love a good maraschino, but no, beer. Beer.
Dave: For sure. Then what’s another good one here? Vivian Chan writes, “How do you overcome the fear or rejection as an entrepreneur?”
Nathan: You just got to, I think you’ve just to put yourself out there and not be like, it’s the obvious stuff like, how do you get up on stage and speak? You just get up and I think with, you’ve just got to jump on stage and put yourself in a situation where you have to do it. If you can, make yourself accountable. Have someone keep you accountable. I still to this day get scared of pitching people to be on the front cover of the magazine, but you just have to do it. You’ve just got to push yourself and you’ve just got to push through.
Dave: Very cool, and so I just want to recap this 200th episode. So there’s been a lot that’s got you and got us here, so going back, you started as a side hustle, started as a passion project, then you developed it, you didn’t listen to people, you started developing the habit of shipping, you’re very good I remember with your goal setting, using that have, be, do, and really clear on your vision of each stage of what was next. You also were very good at shipping and being accountable and moving forward.
One thing we didn’t cover too much in here because it was done on another podcast and things, you were also very good at getting mentors on each step of the way. You mentioned Mitch, but you had a lot of mentors along the way, and one thing you do, and I seem to do very well at this, is get good advice. Actually, let’s just touch on that really quickly, but I think the key part of Founder and your success is you’re never too proud and you surround yourself with a lot of mentors at each stage of the journey. Can you just talk about that just real quick?
Nathan: Yeah, or course, so I think one thing I found from my experience is anything that you’re going to do, there is someone that has done it before, and they’ll know exactly how to do it and all the pitfalls and things you can bypass, and that’s just what you’ve got to do. So it you want to know how to get to 10, 000 unique blog visitors a month, there’s people out there that have done that before and you want to speak to those people and just try and find out how they did it, and if they were to do it again, what’s the fastest way? And I found a lot of power in that with everything we were doing with Founder, because we are treading new grounds, like there’s no magazine, no publication, media brand that does the kind of media that we do on the front end, but then also do courses ad build an educational platform. In fact, there’s no one that’s done it from such a really high level from an education standpoint just around entrepreneurship, and start up for and stuff.
So, I am always, everything that I’m doing, I’m always trying to have just, really, really smart people that have done some of these things that we’re trying to do on Founder. It doesn’t mean for building our exact kind of business, but just for little elements, like let’s just say, if we want to set up an office in The States, which I’m confident that we’ll be able to by the end of this year, who has done that that’s in Australia that has done that before? Just anything like that, so the way that I’ve got mentors and have these really insanely smart people around me is I put myself out there, I’m happy to jump on a clarity call. A great one is Clarity.fm, you can jump on clarity, you can ask people and pay them for their time, 100, 200 bucks for a half an hour, an hour and you can extract everything they’ve learned.
I think of it as like instead of reading a book, because there’s a lot of filler in books, you can actually speak to that person and learn from them and actually learn their best stuff in an hour or half an hour, so I believe it’s in some aspects, faster than reading a book, or I pay, you can pay for coaches or people to help you, or you bring in consultants, or the stuff like we’re doing with Steve, like he helps us every single quarter with our strategy days. We pay him, he doesn’t do it for free, we pay him for his time, but that’s being tremendously valuable, and then also at the same time I’m just trying to serve, and help other people, and network, and put myself out there and serve first and ask later. That’s something Adele taught me, you serve first and ask later, and just really powerful things happen, so yeah, it’s all about just finding people that have done what you want to do so I’m really confident and excited that I think we’ll be in a good place for the start of quarter three.
I can finally help us get a start on this YouTube front, man, and I’m finding all these people now and I’m going to find all these people that have crushed it with YouTube and I’m going to find out how they’ve done it, and speak to them, and learn from them, and but of course help them in return on however I can, and serve them, so yeah, that’s how I’ve been lucky enough to surround myself with great mentors and I’m are happy to pay that person for their time, be respectful, or just network and serve first and ask later.
Dave: Yeah, it’s definitely a skill of yours. It is a skill that you have to develop and you’ve been very good at it, and it’s also an attitude. A little bit of strategy mixed, but it’s mostly attitude. Its trying to learn and give back, it’s not just this aggressive trying to get things from other people.
Dave: Even if you want to be a little bit strategic and there’s people you want to learn from, you try and have the right attitude, and it’s something you’ve been fantastic at.
Nathan: Thanks, man.
Dave: For sure, and then looking through, you left your day job, you replaced your income, you got started, you started building the team out little by little with Angela coming on and a few other people, and just slowly building the team up, and one person at a time, starting to get more and more A players, building up that Instagram, building up the audience, the blog, and just seeing, even for me, remembering back, Founder started as, it sorted of started as a landing page because Apple made you, you know?
Nathan: Mh-mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dave: And it doesn’t happen over night and you can move quickly, and you’d just been relentlessly shipping and building and content, and building this massive content machine, keeping it really high quality, done all these things, done the book launch. Things are at a point in time where you and I, we’re really excited with where things are with Founder and what’s possible with the people were around and what we’re getting to do, so I’d like to finish kind of, what’s next? What are you excited about now? So, you’ve gone through, you’ve slugged through the journey, 200, like what’s getting you fired up at the moment?
Nathan: Oh. Heaps of stuff, but I’ll try and keep it contained. Well, I’ve talked about this, we have millions of people that consume our content every month.i want that to be in the tens of millions. I think that there’s a massive opportunity for us as content creators and building this content machine of everything that we’re putting out to serve people at a much deeper level with educational courses. I believe that that’s a side of the market that’s being underserved and there’s just a lot of rubbish out there, and I think we’re in a position now because of the stuff that we’ve done on the media front to take that a step further, so I believe that we can build the largest entrepreneurial brand in the space around entrepreneurial educational courses.
Now I’m not saying that we’re going to be bigger than Forbes or Fast company, but I would like to get Founder to that tier level of brand impact, but then also brand recognition and acknowledgement that Founder is a source at the same tier as a Forbes, Fast Company entrepreneurial magazine, ink magazine that you would go to learn what it takes to grow what it takes to build a successful business, so yeah, two fold, I’d love for us to be a household name entrepreneurial brand, and then at the same token build a platform, and entrepreneurial platform with entrepreneurial courses that’s 10 X better than anything else out there, and I think we can do that, and I’m really, really excited about growing the brand and growing that educational platform, and you know, all that stuff you’re talking about Dave, I just feel like we’re just scratching the surface, man. That’s what’s most exciting. I think it really does feel we’re just scratching the surface with what’s possible. I want to set up an office in New York and eventually L.A. so we can produce all of our video content and all of our content just coming out of both those spots.
I’m excited that eventually I won’t have to do the interviews. I know I said that and eventually guys, I believe that my time is better served to help grow the brand, versus the person actually doing interviews because it’s very time consuming, so yeah, I’m really excited about building our content houses over seas, and just working with tonnes more founders to share their stories, and do it over a video standpoint.
I’m really excited for us to really ramp up our video. I think there’s a massive opportunity there, and lastly, I’m really excited around growing the team, like, me and you spoke about it many times, like we are building such a weapon team, like everyone is so talented and I think we can do some amazing things there, like I know we’re going to smash out goals this year, go to Bali and everyone’s going to meet up and then I’m really excited for us to have our own space and then eventually a Founder co-working space where us and the Melbourne office can work out alongside people in the community and yeah, I’m not saying I want to do a Founder co-working thing, but I think it’d be cool for us to have a space and turn it into a co-working space, so there’s yeah, a few things on the horizon that I’m really, really excited about there, and then yeah, a few more things that pop in my head but I’ll leave it at that.
Dave: Definitely. Well, look we’ve been going for a while and I just wanted to thank you. It’s been an honour, privilege, tonne of fun working with you upstairs, goods, bad, the good and bad times I should say to speak proper English. It’s been crazy. Its been a tonne of fun. What I really hoped to get out of today was just to really encourage a lot of our listeners and let people see behind the scenes and what we do as a team and kind of what makes you a great CO, great friend, great leader, who’s been able to do this, because Founder has impacted, we get to see it, as you and I know just to read it out for people, we have a wins channel on our Slack and we get to see when people who listen to the podcast and magazine and a free blog post, we get to see when they have applied some of the advice or training that we’ve put out there as a result of you starting this side hustle, and it’s been game changers.
As we know, everything from people getting book deals to, or whether it’s a freedom business or they’ve just really radically changed their lives by getting this freedom that’s available. We’re living in a very amazing time of just immense possibility. I just want to thank you for leading a lot of that charge in online space. Its been something awesome and inspiration to be around, and then just kind of to kind of close out the interview, is there anything that you want to say to the audience, whether that’s just a recap or something, a little bit of advice that you would like to leave the interview on?
Nathan: Thanks, man. Well, look dude, I just wanted to say thanks so much for doing this. You’ve done an incredible job. I knew you would, man, and like for everyone listening, the reason I wanted Dave to do this one is because Dave’s known me pretty much since the start of the Founder journey and he’s been an amazing friend and oh man, where Founder is right now is a testament to everything that you’ve helped me with, even when you weren’t working with us.
Founder wouldn’t be where it is if it wasn’t for you, and I think it’s really important to highlight that you’re only as strong as your team around you and the people you have around you, and I’ve just been really blessed and humbled to have Dave as a close friend, but then also as someone that I work alongside, and I had to twist his arm to convince him to join us, and basically man, you’re like my right hand man and I can’t thank you enough for just sticking by me all this time and helping us get Founder to where it is and I just really wanted to acknowledge that as well, so thank you, and yeah I want to leave it at that, really, and that I think it’s really important that for anyone that’s listening, no matter where you’re at with your business, you’ve got to surround yourself with great people, like really, really good people that you can trust, and yeah, Dave’s someone that has just been amazing and I can’t thank you enough, man.
Dave: Oh man, way to kind of sum … you’re super humbling, well look, I think we should pretty much wrap it up there that just I think we’ve covered the journey, we’ve covered behind the scenes. Things are exciting, things are looking good. What we want to do for everybody listening, we’ve got big goals and dreams of how we want to help our audience, I think that’s really important, like saying what people don’t hear, I guess want to point out when you’re saying these things, you’re not sitting here saying, ‘I want to buy this,’ or ‘I’m trying to do this, I’m trying to do that.’ Whatever you’re talking about the company’s mission and goals, you just drive so much into this company and growing it and we always care about getting people results and seeing things.
I think that attitude’s also what created this longevity and this huge community around the business because we really, really, really care about the audience and making sure that they’re getting to move along, so I think that’s really important. I’m excited about where things are going with Founder. You’re doing amazing things. Future’s looking good, so I’m happy to leave it there if you are, and then I’ll probably see you in the office.
Dave: Right? In a couple of minutes, I guess.
Nathan: Yeah, man, awesome, dude. Well look, thank you so much for doing this, dude. Tonne of fun. Probably one of the best interviews I’ve done, like being interviewed, so thank you man, that’s awesome.
Dave: Alright, you’re welcome. I’ll see you soon.
Nathan: Alright. Chow, bro.
Dave: See ya.
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